Doesn't this belong in "Off-Topic Discussion" section?
Sorry, but this discussion her i cant get. Simple solution is Nato reminds it self of their own promises to not go any step further east and I m sure the problem is solved.
The best would be Nato would get dissolved they are responsible for to many wars on this earth even before.
The best would be Nato would get dissolved they are responsible for to many wars on this earth even before.
@wavecrusher said in #9:
> Every bit of news that you get from any outlet is propaganda, Western media has its own agenda, Russian media has its own agenda, Chinese media has its own agenda etc. I look at all propaganda and make my views. We will know whether it is true or false once Russia gives concrete evidence. Even China has asked for clarification on this topic mind you.
>
> The important thing in any issue is to take a look at both sides, preferably both extremes. Western media is no saint, USA has waged war and have taken many more lives by its military operations in the Middle East and countries like Vietnam.
>
> I believe racism is a major elephant in the room here, a human life is a human life, no matter whether it is Ukraine or countries with people of darker skin. I remember USA giving an entire nation (Afghanistan) to the Taliban not long back, was it anywhere as criticized as this, not at all. Its the power of media, to make the masses sway to its agenda like a pendulum.
One big difference I notice between Russia and Ukraine. Is that Ukraine allows the media from all over the world to report on the war and interview its soldiers. Russia bans the media, bans the internet, and even jails its own people for talking about it in a way they don't like.
> Every bit of news that you get from any outlet is propaganda, Western media has its own agenda, Russian media has its own agenda, Chinese media has its own agenda etc. I look at all propaganda and make my views. We will know whether it is true or false once Russia gives concrete evidence. Even China has asked for clarification on this topic mind you.
>
> The important thing in any issue is to take a look at both sides, preferably both extremes. Western media is no saint, USA has waged war and have taken many more lives by its military operations in the Middle East and countries like Vietnam.
>
> I believe racism is a major elephant in the room here, a human life is a human life, no matter whether it is Ukraine or countries with people of darker skin. I remember USA giving an entire nation (Afghanistan) to the Taliban not long back, was it anywhere as criticized as this, not at all. Its the power of media, to make the masses sway to its agenda like a pendulum.
One big difference I notice between Russia and Ukraine. Is that Ukraine allows the media from all over the world to report on the war and interview its soldiers. Russia bans the media, bans the internet, and even jails its own people for talking about it in a way they don't like.
@Querdenken-711 said in #22:
> Sorry, but this discussion her i cant get. Simple solution is Nato reminds it self of their own promises to not go any step further east and I m sure the problem is solved.
>
> The best would be Nato would get dissolved they are responsible for to many wars on this earth even before.
What wars have nato caused? Nato has not caused the Ukraine conflict. Thats just another way of saying that Ukraine has no right to independence and confirm they were right for wanting Nato to protect them from unprovoked invasion.
> Sorry, but this discussion her i cant get. Simple solution is Nato reminds it self of their own promises to not go any step further east and I m sure the problem is solved.
>
> The best would be Nato would get dissolved they are responsible for to many wars on this earth even before.
What wars have nato caused? Nato has not caused the Ukraine conflict. Thats just another way of saying that Ukraine has no right to independence and confirm they were right for wanting Nato to protect them from unprovoked invasion.
@AnimeWillDieSoon said in #18:
> For little appreciation , money and assurance who gives up their nukes ?
Yeah, "assurance". Game of words in UK and US papers. But beware that in Ukrainian and Russian text it goes directly "guarantees". And UA and RU text was signed by all participants.
> But now we don't have to fear from any invasion because of our Weapons .
Ok, your country thinks it is a plus to have nukes. But I don't believe it saves from many flavors of war. Just now there's no threat from India, or is there ? ))
> It was Ukraine which voiced against our nuclear program and Russia who vetoed for us .
Yes, and I support it. Power comes together with responsibility. As long as the adequate people rule countries it doesn't have serious consequences. But better all countries would get rid of it, incl. US.
Russia's veto just meant that back then (and possible today, too) US can't be sure who India would support in nuke equation.
> It is only of Us' interest anyway for Ukraine to join Nato , Ukraine doesn't gain anything , See whats happening now for instance , Got any help ?
We did not get what was declared, that's a fact. But a neighbor calling police is better than one who would just make a TV louder. It still doesn't mean the police thas to blow up a whole city in response.
> Lastly, You can change your friends but not neighbours . Have good relations with Russia
Don't you find that Ukraine and Russia were always called brothers? But Russia can't stand a chance of equality, with current leadership. Despite all, we had very high two-way trade with Russia, and cultural binds, there's many Ukrainians living (maybe often it was not their choice, though).
> If you call your neighbours enemy to your house , Be prepared to face nnger of them .
But when your brother invades your family life, what do you do? Keep smiling, give up and let him rape your wife? Or do you immediately pick up a nuke and target at him? That's insane! Actions require adequate response.
> Don't try to join Military alliance like Nato which is threat to Russia's existence
The threat to Russia of Ukraine joining NATO (not sooner than in 5 years I imagine) is their own problem that originates from hunger to rebuild an empire. The q-ty of nukes in Russia and US are about the same today, they say. Plus China and India arsenal, it makes not interesting to use nukes. That's why it is called the weapon of containment. Noone would win if nukes get into the air!
> For little appreciation , money and assurance who gives up their nukes ?
Yeah, "assurance". Game of words in UK and US papers. But beware that in Ukrainian and Russian text it goes directly "guarantees". And UA and RU text was signed by all participants.
> But now we don't have to fear from any invasion because of our Weapons .
Ok, your country thinks it is a plus to have nukes. But I don't believe it saves from many flavors of war. Just now there's no threat from India, or is there ? ))
> It was Ukraine which voiced against our nuclear program and Russia who vetoed for us .
Yes, and I support it. Power comes together with responsibility. As long as the adequate people rule countries it doesn't have serious consequences. But better all countries would get rid of it, incl. US.
Russia's veto just meant that back then (and possible today, too) US can't be sure who India would support in nuke equation.
> It is only of Us' interest anyway for Ukraine to join Nato , Ukraine doesn't gain anything , See whats happening now for instance , Got any help ?
We did not get what was declared, that's a fact. But a neighbor calling police is better than one who would just make a TV louder. It still doesn't mean the police thas to blow up a whole city in response.
> Lastly, You can change your friends but not neighbours . Have good relations with Russia
Don't you find that Ukraine and Russia were always called brothers? But Russia can't stand a chance of equality, with current leadership. Despite all, we had very high two-way trade with Russia, and cultural binds, there's many Ukrainians living (maybe often it was not their choice, though).
> If you call your neighbours enemy to your house , Be prepared to face nnger of them .
But when your brother invades your family life, what do you do? Keep smiling, give up and let him rape your wife? Or do you immediately pick up a nuke and target at him? That's insane! Actions require adequate response.
> Don't try to join Military alliance like Nato which is threat to Russia's existence
The threat to Russia of Ukraine joining NATO (not sooner than in 5 years I imagine) is their own problem that originates from hunger to rebuild an empire. The q-ty of nukes in Russia and US are about the same today, they say. Plus China and India arsenal, it makes not interesting to use nukes. That's why it is called the weapon of containment. Noone would win if nukes get into the air!
@Rocanegra said in #13:
> what did you do in 2022 during the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
> I was playing chess, and uncovering a bottle of champagne for the victory of Putin, and for the defeat of ucranian^s fascism.
Ever been to Ukraine yourself? Ever met a Ukrainian yourself in Argentina (seems you reside there)? Not talking about online game.
Where it comes from that you state about fascism in Ukraine?
> what did you do in 2022 during the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
> I was playing chess, and uncovering a bottle of champagne for the victory of Putin, and for the defeat of ucranian^s fascism.
Ever been to Ukraine yourself? Ever met a Ukrainian yourself in Argentina (seems you reside there)? Not talking about online game.
Where it comes from that you state about fascism in Ukraine?
I thought we were all Berliners!
@CooloutAC said in #24:
> What wars have nato caused? Nato has not caused the Ukraine conflict. Thats just another way of saying that Ukraine has no right to independence and confirm they were right for wanting Nato to protect them from unprovoked invasion.
No, I did not say they have no right to be independence. But the Nato should keep their promise and don t let any former soviet Union State join the Nato.
And you ask what wars the Nato caused, is this is a joke ? I commmemerate a lot of wars caused by Nato - and the most against russian security intrests - for example Kosovo war or Syria. And they had not any consequence at all for the Nato states .
> What wars have nato caused? Nato has not caused the Ukraine conflict. Thats just another way of saying that Ukraine has no right to independence and confirm they were right for wanting Nato to protect them from unprovoked invasion.
No, I did not say they have no right to be independence. But the Nato should keep their promise and don t let any former soviet Union State join the Nato.
And you ask what wars the Nato caused, is this is a joke ? I commmemerate a lot of wars caused by Nato - and the most against russian security intrests - for example Kosovo war or Syria. And they had not any consequence at all for the Nato states .
@agamenon84 said in #11:
> We're seeing ethnic persecution against Russians
Let me see your point... so if an agressor country is criticised and sanctioned, it is ethnic persecution? Or reaction to invasion?
Check the sanctions list, most items are "postpone", "temporary denial" etc.
Hope you'll never experience the horror of seeing your relatives and neighbors dead after bomb attack in a totally civil region.
Note, not a single bullet went accross the Russian/Belarus border yet.
Keep your mind cool and the heart hot!
> We're seeing ethnic persecution against Russians
Let me see your point... so if an agressor country is criticised and sanctioned, it is ethnic persecution? Or reaction to invasion?
Check the sanctions list, most items are "postpone", "temporary denial" etc.
Hope you'll never experience the horror of seeing your relatives and neighbors dead after bomb attack in a totally civil region.
Note, not a single bullet went accross the Russian/Belarus border yet.
Keep your mind cool and the heart hot!
@Querdenken-711 said in #28:
> No, I did not say they have no right to be independence. But the Nato should keep their promise and don t let any former soviet Union State join the Nato.
> And you ask what wars the Nato caused, is this is a joke ? I commmemerate a lot of wars caused by Nato - and the most against russian security intrests - for example Kosovo war or Syria. And they had not any consequence at all for the Nato states .
What Ukraine did was confirm for the world it was to protect themselves from Russia. And what Putin did was use the
paranoid excuse that Ukraine would build nuclear missiles. This conflict clearly has nothing to do with Nato for Russia, and it is not valid justification for their unprovoked invasion regardless.
> No, I did not say they have no right to be independence. But the Nato should keep their promise and don t let any former soviet Union State join the Nato.
> And you ask what wars the Nato caused, is this is a joke ? I commmemerate a lot of wars caused by Nato - and the most against russian security intrests - for example Kosovo war or Syria. And they had not any consequence at all for the Nato states .
What Ukraine did was confirm for the world it was to protect themselves from Russia. And what Putin did was use the
paranoid excuse that Ukraine would build nuclear missiles. This conflict clearly has nothing to do with Nato for Russia, and it is not valid justification for their unprovoked invasion regardless.
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